tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8052308.post7095131015905323835..comments2024-01-24T06:50:01.683-06:00Comments on Samizdat Blog: Modernism, or Talking to Dead PeopleArchambeauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17273511539172747550noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8052308.post-52975138459588567292012-03-16T21:32:26.899-05:002012-03-16T21:32:26.899-05:00"In fact, I'd say skepticism about the gr..."In fact, I'd say skepticism about the grand recit is pretty much the received wisdom nowadays, taught and accepted without a whole lot of critical consciousness."<br /><br />Yeah, I think that about sums it up. Unfortunately, it is also symptomatic of postmodernism that it is prone to mannerism (in the classical, art-historical sense). When we combine the two we get a lot of the kind of poetry we get these days: small in focus, frequently avoiding the big topics (you know, love, death, archetypes, survival), occasionally narcissistic. We get the so-called "workshop poem," which is usually small-scale and narrowly focused; I've read many that read like slice-of-life on the level of Facebook, my girlfriend left me and my cat died. We also get the avoidance of meaning, and the exaltation of un-meaning, vis a vis LangPo and other surface-oriented poetries. <br /><br />I've gotten into arguments with Silliman and his camp regarding this, my viewpoint being that you can't call yourself an outsider artist when your art has come to dominate the awards, the workshops, and the academies. What struck me during some of those arguments was that the old rebellion had become the new received wisdom, and was not to be questioned. Well, I questioned. <br /><br />But then, I'm a poet very much on the outside of everything you're talking about here, not being affiliated in any way with any camps or academies. Just doing my thing out here in the hinterlands. And writing about the big subjects, especially the shamanic ones. Go figure.Art Durkeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07463180236975988432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8052308.post-11131779044275492812012-03-12T12:49:39.636-05:002012-03-12T12:49:39.636-05:00Thanks much! Follow away!Thanks much! Follow away!Archambeauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17273511539172747550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8052308.post-1579563782056621812012-03-12T12:45:54.707-05:002012-03-12T12:45:54.707-05:00Wow...sir you are unbelievably talented. I was per...Wow...sir you are unbelievably talented. I was perusing poetry blogs on blogger and found this one. May I follow? Feel free to follow mine back. I look forward to reading your next post!Optimistic Existentialisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11507986337866049924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8052308.post-48164813188745763352012-03-11T23:27:56.767-05:002012-03-11T23:27:56.767-05:00Oh! I didn't mean to say that the existence of...Oh! I didn't mean to say that the existence of MFA programs has led poets to turn to modernism. What I meant was that the programs are one (minor) symptom of the kind of modernity, or modern social organization, that many modernists recoiled from a century of so ago. That is: the programs are part of a general, large-scale movement to a society that is more administered, bureaucratized, more rationalized-for-profit, and more prone to treat experiences as commodities than the society that existed earlier.<br /><br />I do think there's less talking to dead people in contemporary poetry than there was for the modernists of the early 20th century. And especially less of the kind of interest in the past that led people to try to master whole traditions and get a sense of large scale patterns of the development of literature over time. Some of this certainly has to with postmodernism, of the kind described by Jean-Francois Lyotard in "The Postmodern Condition: A Report on Knowlegde," where he claimed that postmodernism was characterized by a lack of interest or trust in the "grand recit" (the big story) and by a faith in the "petit recit" (the little story without pretense to sweeping explanatory power). In fact, I'd say skepticism about the grand recit is pretty much the received wisdom nowadays, taught and accepted without a whole lot of critical consciousness.<br /><br />Also, there's a real interest in, and sometimes a love of, popular culture in much poetry now. I think this really takes off in American poetry with the New York School -- O'Hara loving the movies, Joe Brainard's love of street fashion, etc. I'd like to know more about the implications of all this, but I'm not there yet, and don't really want to take the existing studies at face value, so I'll just keep my mouth shut.<br /><br />As for the vapidity and emptiness of the exalted: yeah. I hear you. I think it was always like this. Or at least I like to think that, since then we can just sort of sigh and get on with things.<br /><br />Bob<br /><br /> but there are exceptions.Archambeauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17273511539172747550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8052308.post-51713117985378158142012-03-11T22:19:49.402-05:002012-03-11T22:19:49.402-05:00I'm afraid it's not true that "... th...I'm afraid it's not true that "... the existence of these programs has ... led so many modernists to turn against modernity itself and immerse themselves in the splendid alterity of the past." -- instead they've turned against modernity itself by embracing postmodernism, where the less you know, the less you 'talk to dead people', the more exalted your status becomes.Marcushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07391731816184313020noreply@blogger.com