tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8052308.post37834934674495292..comments2024-01-24T06:50:01.683-06:00Comments on Samizdat Blog: Notes on the Origins of French Literary RadicalismArchambeauhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17273511539172747550noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8052308.post-42903025165591111572010-10-27T10:15:41.715-05:002010-10-27T10:15:41.715-05:00Hi Zachary,
I'm not sure about this going any...Hi Zachary,<br /><br />I'm not sure about this going anywhere, really. The book I'm working on should have a section on English aesthetes and decadents, and they draw a lot of inspiration from the French, so there may be a section comparing and contrasting their motives for these sorts of writing and the rather different English motives. But right now I'm more excited about the chapter -after- that one, on Eliot and Yeats, and their ambivalence about being public figures.<br /><br />Best,<br /><br />BobArchambeauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17273511539172747550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8052308.post-61578914676980293462010-10-26T23:57:22.095-05:002010-10-26T23:57:22.095-05:00"In democratic times, the public often treats..."In democratic times, the public often treats authors the way kings usually treat their courtiers; it enriches and despises them." This and Tocqueville's other comments on literature in Democracy in America, I think are rather compatible with what you write here. <br /><br />A corollary seems true, doesn't it? The unpopularity of an author is directly proportional to her poverty. Both features are probably signs of great skill and wisdom.<br /><br />Is this French literary business going to make its way into article or monograph form one of these days?Zachary Boshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07381974131762307270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8052308.post-37928929257182660162010-10-17T13:34:54.345-05:002010-10-17T13:34:54.345-05:00The source was from Bernard-Henri Lévy, "Amer...The source was from Bernard-Henri Lévy, "American Vertigo: Traveling America in the Footsteps of Tocqueville" (New York: Random House, 2006). Sorry I can't come up with the exact page off the top of my head. Among many other topics in his grand survey in the spirit of Tocqueville, Lévy comments pointedly at times about the deeply-embedded strain in American culture of anti-intellectualism, of the kind of populism that is suspicious of any kinds of deep thought and therefore becomes vulnerable to fearmongering and sloganeering. The saying speaks to the contrast between America and France, pointing out that in times of crisis the last person most Americans would turn to is a philosopher. <br /><br />On the other hand, it's just a saying. Don't take it so seriously.Art Durkeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07463180236975988432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8052308.post-68252785622172279782010-10-16T11:18:28.109-05:002010-10-16T11:18:28.109-05:00BHL! I nearly knocked him down by accident once w...BHL! I nearly knocked him down by accident once when he was being interviewed by some people with a TV camera. It was near near the Pantheon in Paris, and I was rushing to a late dinner appointment and not looking where I was going. My Derrida encounter was in Chicago, down in Hyde Park, after I'd attended a lecture he gave. He was walking down the street with some fawning U of Chicago faculty, wearing an ankle-length cowboy style duster. I had had a couple of drinks, and was staring at his getup. "Did you have a question?" he asked, rightly assuming I had been in the audience. "Yes," I said, "where did you get that jacket?" He swept off, a look of haughty disdain on his face.<br /><br />Best,<br /><br />BobArchambeauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17273511539172747550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8052308.post-55266620764662455972010-10-16T11:09:27.733-05:002010-10-16T11:09:27.733-05:00Well, I've been in France since 1984 (I'm ...Well, I've been in France since 1984 (I'm a lapsed New Yorker), and I have to say, philosophers have pretty much zero presence in the media, with the exception of the faux philosopher Bernard-Henri Levi, who has been cultivating a skewed image of himself lately on the Huffington Post and in other US publications.<br /><br />Derrida never had a major presence in France, and, in fact, wasn't really taught. While the remains of his ideas are still polluting academia in the US, they are barely known in France.<br /><br />There was a time when the occasional philosopher would be interview on Bernard Pivot's great TV show Apostrophes, which has been off the air now for, what, 20 years now. (Ah, I do miss that show...) But the ratings for that show - even though it was in prime time - never got above a few percentage points. <br /><br />These days it's even less the case that any "intellectual" gets more than the occasional attention. One notable exception is Luc Ferry, who does a weekly news/commentary show on a cable news channel (LCI) opposite Jaques Julliard of the magazine Le Nouvel observateur. It's a sort of French crossfire, but the two of them tend to agree pretty often.<br /><br />Mac problems? I hope there aren't too many. :-)Kirkhttp://www.mcelhearn.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8052308.post-68311661551138268492010-10-16T10:12:08.170-05:002010-10-16T10:12:08.170-05:00I haven't heard the phrase Art mentions either...I haven't heard the phrase Art mentions either, but I do think I see the general point -- that philosophy has had a greater public presence in France than in many other countries. <br /><br />I'm sure there are better, more comprehensive, and up to date sources than this one, but here's an old article from the 80s about how Derrida came to be prominent in France, and how he came to be a big deal in American academe. The difference is telling -- he had a media presence in France, but a professional niche audience in the U.S. <br /><br />http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~mlamont/papers/HowFrenchPhilosopher.pdf<br /><br />Of course a lot of intellectually inclined people in English-speaking countries romanticize/exaggerate these kinds of differences, but surely there's something to it.<br /><br />(Also, I intend to come to you for all of my Mac problems from here on out!).<br /><br />BobArchambeauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17273511539172747550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8052308.post-75375239148286373932010-10-16T04:03:48.654-05:002010-10-16T04:03:48.654-05:00"I am reminded of the saying that when the Fr..."I am reminded of the saying that when the French have a crisis, they go talk to a philosopher. No-one else in Euro-America does that. So there is some truth to what you're stipulating."<br /><br />And you've heard that where? Because I've been living in France for 25 years, and I've never heard that...Kirknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8052308.post-61105410279713096462010-10-15T21:37:14.365-05:002010-10-15T21:37:14.365-05:00Yeah. Deleuze is the brightest of the bunch, and ...Yeah. Deleuze is the brightest of the bunch, and there's something very cool and generous about his attitude to how his work is used -- there's no such thing as misuse, there's only making something out of what you find. I'd like to spend more time with his work, but then again, I feel that way about a lot of things.<br /><br />B.Archambeauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17273511539172747550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8052308.post-60177539834646222472010-10-15T18:58:49.476-05:002010-10-15T18:58:49.476-05:00I am reminded of the saying that when the French h...I am reminded of the saying that when the French have a crisis, they go talk to a philosopher. No-one else in Euro-America does that. So there is some truth to what you're stipulating.<br /><br />I've often maintained that Rimbaud is to the rebelling adolescent male as Sylvia Plath is to troubled adolescent girls. In other words, a touchstone for feeling alienated, obscurely motivated by dark emotions, and rejecting of the control of parental and school institutions. <br /><br />There is a hint here, too, of the Nietzschean idea that society is ruled too much by Apollonian tendencies, and that Dionysian misrule must break through, periodically, in order to keep things healthy and evolving. <br /><br />There's something to Deleuze's theories that really breaks through the either/or dichotomies upon which a lot of this kind of theory is built, though. Something, to use his own words, rhizomatic.Art Durkeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07463180236975988432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8052308.post-43020307383093848082010-10-15T17:41:51.254-05:002010-10-15T17:41:51.254-05:00Sorry! That last comment of mine had some typos an...Sorry! That last comment of mine had some typos and at least one really bad sentence -- I hope it's clear that I meant all that immigrant/mother country stuff in reference to Australia, not Nepal!<br /><br />B.Archambeauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17273511539172747550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8052308.post-19988414842856633112010-10-15T17:39:52.409-05:002010-10-15T17:39:52.409-05:00Hi Kirk,
I agree that this post doesn't exact...Hi Kirk,<br /><br />I agree that this post doesn't exactly constitute a subtle depiction of French society in the 19th century. And I take your point about the various political changes (Republican, Bonapartist, Monarchist, Communard, what have you). I do think, though, that there was a remarkable continuity, post-Napoleon, in the apparatus of administration, regardless of the changes at the top. In fact, a case could be made that the longstanding centralization of French political life helped make the rapidity of regime change possible -- one need only really seize control of the center to control the apparatus of the state. (I'm no expert, not by a long mile, but I did once co-teach a graduate seminar on the literature and philosophy of the era with a historian, and what I'm offering here is my hazy attempt at reconstructing his analysis).<br /><br />I agree about literature being the product of a culture. Of course I there's some question about how strongly the idea of culture corresponds with that of nation (and of course there are all kinds of asymmetries between what we think of as nations -- Australia is a very different sort of entity than Poland or Nepal, what with its immigrant population, multiculturalism, and relationship to a distant mother country). I mean, consider "English Lit" — much of the material one finds of syllabi and in textbooks comes from non-English sources (Burke, Wilde, Rushdie, Robert Louis Stevenson, T.S. Eliot), sources with different sorts of links to different non-English backgrounds and influences. I'm sure you're right about this increasing post-WW II.<br /><br />As for the division of literary study by nation -- I suppose any paradigm has it's limits, and as you've seen, I blow hot and cold on the issue. <br /> <br />Best, and thanks for the thoughtful comments,<br /><br />BobArchambeauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17273511539172747550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8052308.post-91645598693510946592010-10-15T17:22:01.805-05:002010-10-15T17:22:01.805-05:00With all due respect, you're over-simplifying ...With all due respect, you're over-simplifying French history. The 19th century in France was a long pendulum swinging from despotism to democracy and back and forth several times. The modern French state really didn't form until the end of the century, and so much of what happened in literature is that of a country in perpetual turmoil. (Frankly, the country still is.) <br /><br />In many ways, French "literary radicalism" really isn't; it's attempts to come to terms with a changing society, with its sharp turns to the right and to the left. Les Misérables is probably the best example of this, inasmuch as it lays out much of the history of the first half of the century.<br /><br />I'm not an academic, and I would probably prefer that national literatures not be segregated, but there is a logic to it. While there are external influences - and the Transcendentalists are a good example - one has to admit that most of the influences on any form of national literature do come from within. While ignoring external influences is detrimental to understanding any literature, ignoring internal influences - under the guise of saying that you can't divorce a given "literature" from the rest of the world - is short-sighted. Granted, international influences are much stronger post WWII, but literature is still essentially the product of a culture.Kirkhttp://www.mcelhearn.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8052308.post-53915793864565364932010-10-15T15:15:41.170-05:002010-10-15T15:15:41.170-05:00Oh, I agree entirely that there are more factors a...Oh, I agree entirely that there are more factors at work than the two I point at. Absolutely.<br /><br />B.Archambeauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17273511539172747550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8052308.post-41440287695901427272010-10-15T14:39:41.889-05:002010-10-15T14:39:41.889-05:00Interesting. And I think you are on to something. ...Interesting. And I think you are on to something. But I'd add some concepts that probably need to enter the discussion. Why does Britain have no lineage like that between Baudelaire and Blanchot? 1. France is mainly under the spell of republicanism. 2. France is, nonetheless, mainly Catholic. 3. France has a completely different education system. 4. In France the relations between the state and the market is very different. 5. France has a different class system in effect.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com